Pre-Searing Question - Guild Wars Forums

Maneo Ranae · Oct 31, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I've only recently made my fourth Prophecies character, hoping to achieve Legendary Defender of Ascalon on it.
Now, my question is,... Since I don't have the attribute points to pump my attribute to 9 to pwn with my Sundering Rhino's Charge, what would be the Attribute to boost? Strength or Beast Mastery? (Yes, I have a pet, for extra damage)

Now, if anyone could make, at least, an educated guess on how much the increase in damage would be with the extra points in Strength, or in Beast Mastery,... I'd be grateful =D. Just a little, complicated thing I wanted to know.

Current attributes:
Hammer Mastery: 3 (I've got the Weapon Crafter's hammer)
Strength: 0
Beast Mastery: 0

Quaker · Oct 31, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Strength by itself will increase your armor penetration, which will, in effect, increase your damage. But how much extra damage you do depends a lot on the armor level of your foes.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Strength

Beast Mastery will increase the damage done by your pet, but the wiki ( http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Mastery ) doesn't give a clear idea of by how much. It depends also, on the level of your pet.

In my experience, unless you can put like 9 or 10 in BM you'd be better off putting points in Strength.

The Meth · Oct 31, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

The strength benefit is really, really weak though. You are getting 1% AP per point ONLY on skill attacks, not normal attacks. At best you will probably average only 1 or 2 more damage per skill even with a high strength. So if you aren't using strength skills its much better to pump whatever weapon mastery you are using. If the choice has to come down between beastmastery and strength though, I would go beastmastery. Strength just has too small an effect by itself, while beast mastery gets you a good 10 DPS from the pet. I would just get a random drop weapon and use that in the meantime though, then switch to the hammer ASAP.

EDIT: if going for LDoA, take the "Charr at the Gate" quest and level through that. You can get to level 7 or 8 pretty quickly and rurik does all the killing while you sit back and watch. Just don't finish the quest, abandon and retake it till you level enough.

The Red Messenger · Oct 31, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

just do this:

get the rinblade from ascalon crafter. its 10-14 req 3

sword mastery - 4-6
tactics - 3-5
wilderness survival - 2-3

frenzy, sever artery, gash, heal signet, troll unguent, comfort animal, res sig, charm animal

easy day.

oh and strength and beast mastery are a waste of points. for more damage, add points to your weapon attribute line.

Maneo Ranae · Oct 31, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

In my experience, unless you can put like 9 or 10 in BM you'd be better off putting points in Strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

The strength benefit is really, really weak though. You are getting 1% AP per point ONLY on skill attacks, not normal attacks.

Now, the problem is that I've only gotten Frenzy, and NO attack skills. Either way, even if I would get attack skills, I'd still be using a Hammer,... For which you only get ONE attack skill in Pre, right? So, after reading Meth's comment, I've concluded that Strength is useless =D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Messenger

oh and strength and beast mastery are a waste of points. for more damage, add points to your weapon attribute line.

... Does that actually add damage? As far as I know, putting in points OVER the required number, doesn't add more damage, right,...
However, it could be that more points in Hammer Mastery pulls up the percentage for damage higher in the damage range (for me, 13-20), but even still,...
Doubtful.

K, now it's between Weapon Mastery and Beast Mastery lol,... Anyone else?

Davy · Oct 31, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Putting points over the requirement doesn't increase damage but critical hit chance.
Id go for Weapon damage and dump leftovers in BM (even tho BM is bad in itself imho, dunno about presearing tho)

The Meth · Oct 31, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maneo Ranae

... Does that actually add damage? As far as I know, putting in points OVER the required number, doesn't add more damage, right,...
However, it could be that more points in Hammer Mastery pulls up the percentage for damage higher in the damage range (for me, 13-20), but even still,...
Doubtful.

Every point in a weapon attribute basically means you reduce the enemies armor by 5 (this applies after normal weapon penetration, and its a straight value, not a percent). So if you are fighting an enemy with 45 armor with 9 hammer mastery and that hammer, you will do the normal damage (9x5 = 45 armor is negated by the weapon mastery). If you fought an enemy with 60 armor with 12 hammer mastery, you would again do normal damage (12 x 5 = 60 armor) If you fought an enemy with 45 armor with 12 hammer mastery, you would do about 30% more damage (12 x 5 = 60. 60 armor bypassed vs 45 armor on target = -15 armor, which gives 30% more damage). There is a cutoff though, beyond 12 ranks of weapon mastery you only get an extra 2 armor penetration worth of damage. Note that this cutoff is lower for characters under level 20, and higher for characters over lvl 20, but noone has really done any testing on exactly what it is since 99% of guild wars is played at lvl 20.

Every rank of weapon mastery also gives about a 1.5% higher chance to critical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy

Putting points over the requirement doesn't increase damage but critical hit chance.
Id go for Weapon damage and dump leftovers in BM (even tho BM is bad in itself imho, dunno about presearing tho)

Critical rates are NOT related to weapon requirements. Critical rates are the same no matter what the requirement is. Weapon damage DOES increase with higher mastery, but as I said above when you go past rank 12 the damage increase is less then half of the ranks before.

October Jade · Oct 31, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Also...if you can put points in BM, that means you already took a secondary profession. When aiming for the LDoA title, that is not the wisest of decisions. It might behoove you to reroll your character; the time spent doing so is likely less than what it will take you to eke out the equivalent xp at level 19.

Maneo Ranae · Oct 31, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I haven't yet chosen a secondary, I'm just orienting ^^. For later on, lol.

The only quest I've done is for getting Frenzy and Healing Signet

crazybanshee · Oct 31, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I just got ldoa on my warrior like a month ago. There's a really good guide in the community section here, but in a nutshell here's what I did. You have to do the first quest that makes you go into ascalon. Then you can accept as many quests as you want but don't take any rewards! Many of the quests will give you skills when they give you the quest. As a warrior, with a ranger secondary, you'll have attack skills (gash and 1 other one, I forget the name) plus troll unguent. Take the charr at the gate quest, do it, zone back to town, abandon the quest, retake it, etc etc. Until you get to level 10. Then you can do runs north of the wall - honestly I did the whole thing without a pet, because the pet really screws up your pulling and doesn't add very much damage, but ymmv. Once you start death leveling you definitely can't have a pet, it'll play havoc on that. Look for that guide in the community section here, I followed it and got ldoa without much trouble.

Antares Ascending · Oct 31, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

The armor in Pre is on the low side so str and armor penetration is going to give minimal dmg increase. Try going mostly str, then mostly weapon attribute to see.

Pets, Once you start death leveling can be a MAJOR liability. You die just short of char death but pet kills the char = 0 exp. They also can be a spoiler on pulling Char

This untimely death senario can also be true when using any degen skill like bleeding (sever artery) tho deep wound (gash, which needs bleeding) is your friend...big time. Both are sword skills. You may want to experiment with both hammer and sword to see which is more effective. I would choose sword/shield main set with a second set using hammer (extra attri. points in hammer for shamen or char using a heal signet). Better survivability with sword due to armor bonus with the shield. There is a good Char shield avail in a quest to return a chest to Devona with +armor vs Char.

last....use a flat bow for pulling char. it has a huge arc which will give you more time after you aggro a group to be pulled. Long bows are ok but have a smaller arc and flight time.

Check out Pre-Searing Community on the fansite page for some tips on the title http://www.presearing.com/
Personally, I would take a second profession but only take the initial skills. Ranger is good for Troll unguent which gives 13 seconds of regen that can be handy when pulling char.

Good luck !

Ant

ps: the exp you gain in pulling will serve you well throughout the game.

Bluefeather · Nov 01, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I think you will like it better if you will put all your points to swordmanship so that you may increase the degen effect of your Sever Artery. Putting points on your secondary prof is not really helpful at that point of time (and usually, players who are working with LDoA don't have 2nd prof yet).

Plus you need to find a anti Charr weapon to increase your damage output.

Quaker · Nov 01, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maneo Ranae

I haven't yet chosen a secondary, I'm just orienting ^^. For later on, lol.

If you haven't actually chosen a secondary, how do you put points into Strength and Beast Mastery. Strength is a Warrior attribute, Beast mastery is for Rangers.

You must be doing one of the pre-searing quests which give you temporary access to Ranger skills/attributes. If so, and unless you plan to keep Ranger as a secondary, why worry about points in BM?

My recommendation, btw, is for Monk as a secondary. This is mostly so you can use Resurrect or Rebirth as a rez, instead of a signet, and also for a bit of self healing (not to try to heal others or be a Monk in any sense.) Later on, after you've gotten more skills and a better understanding of what you want to do, you can change your secondary to something else.
If you do take Monk as a secondary, you won't have Beast Mastery any more - and you should only put "left over" points in any Monk attribute. (Sometimes, after putting points where you want them, you may have a few points "left over" which are not enough to boost one of your main attributes.)

Also, in my previous answer, I was only comparing Strength to BM - basically, I would agree with those who say that, at this point you should put your points in Weapons Mastery (Hammer Mastery).
But really, you can move your points around whenever you like (in a town/outpost), so just try out different things to see how they work for you. And, as you do the various secondary profession quest, you'll need to change them anyway.

The Meth · Nov 01, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

He's going for LDoA, and there are no hard resses in pre, so monk really doesn't help.

Konig Des Todes · Nov 01, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

imo, just keep it balanced between Weapon Mastery and Strength, possibly Tactics as well (for better healing from Healing Signet).

Maneo Ranae · Nov 01, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

If you haven't actually chosen a secondary, how do you put points into Strength and Beast Mastery. Strength is a Warrior attribute, Beast mastery is for Rangers.

You must be doing one of the pre-searing quests which give you temporary access to Ranger skills/attributes. If so, and unless you plan to keep Ranger as a secondary, why worry about points in BM?

It was late that night, I'd played for 4/5 hours on that day, I was tired xD I'm sorry about asking about Beast Mastery because basically it's useless untill I get to do all the quests (so I can get the secondary), but then it's useless AGAIN because a pet screws up deathlevelling.

I'm sorry about being unclear ^^.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antares Ascending

Better survivability with sword due to armor bonus with the shield. There is a good Char shield avail in a quest to return a chest to Devona with +armor vs Char.

I could get the Serrated Shield with max armor, but then again I'd have to pump points into Tactics,... Could this work? xD

I realise I've not been truly clear,... And yet you've tried to anser my question as best as humanly possible ^^.

Just one more question!
K then, disregarding my "wants", what is the best way for a Warrior to take if he/she wants to become LDoA? (With best way I mean build, secondary etc.)
Thanks, really =).

snaek · Nov 01, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

ugh...ppl...plz do not make random crap up
do research on wiki or learn the game mechanics urself
but do not post fake game mechanics >__<

one of the only real posts here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Every point in a weapon attribute basically means you reduce the enemies armor by 5 (this applies after normal weapon penetration, and its a straight value, not a percent). So if you are fighting an enemy with 45 armor with 9 hammer mastery and that hammer, you will do the normal damage (9x5 = 45 armor is negated by the weapon mastery). If you fought an enemy with 60 armor with 12 hammer mastery, you would again do normal damage (12 x 5 = 60 armor) If you fought an enemy with 45 armor with 12 hammer mastery, you would do about 30% more damage (12 x 5 = 60. 60 armor bypassed vs 45 armor on target = -15 armor, which gives 30% more damage). There is a cutoff though, beyond 12 ranks of weapon mastery you only get an extra 2 armor penetration worth of damage. Note that this cutoff is lower for characters under level 20, and higher for characters over lvl 20, but noone has really done any testing on exactly what it is since 99% of guild wars is played at lvl 20.

Every rank of weapon mastery also gives about a 1.5% higher chance to critical.

Critical rates are NOT related to weapon requirements. Critical rates are the same no matter what the requirement is. Weapon damage DOES increase with higher mastery, but as I said above when you go past rank 12 the damage increase is less then half of the ranks before.

anyone who wants to post any facts about weapon attrib pts...
please read this fully before doing so:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_calculation

to op: put all points in weapon attrib
and then any leftover in a secondary attrib dependin on ur skills

crazybanshee · Nov 01, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Ok. For warrior to get ldoa, put most of your points in swordsmanship. sorry, hammer is not the best wep to use for this. you get 2 good sword skills. Then put points in tactics, both for heal sig and the serrated shield. Take the quest that gives you the ranger skills so you can have troll unguent, but don't accept the reward until you're done death leveling. If you have leftover points you can put them in strength. Every time you level, you will get more attribute points so feel free to adjust and change them. I say troll unguent because that will give you good regen for several seconds, which will help you with pulling and also overcoming mesmer hexes and so on from the charr/ charr bosses. When you start death leveling, I recommend putting all your points into swordsmanship and strength, because you will basically not be healing and you'll need to kill faster just based on base damage alone without skills (because you will not want to inflict bleeding degen on the charr as they might die after you die and not give you any xp) Frenzy is also your friend in this as after you level the charr and are going to kill them, you can frenzy to help your base damage. Don't worry about healing, it's a waste of time. You'll be invulnerable for a few seconds every time you res, so use this time to attack one foe and over the course of a couple ressurects you'll eventually kill them. It sounds confusing but it's really not, once you've done it once the whole thing will make sense and you'll be an expert in no time. Anyone who's here giving advice about it should be able to flash their ldoa title on a warrior before they start arguing about what's best :/

Maneo Ranae · Nov 01, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Well, I figured Hammer would be cool because then you'd pretty much kill every enemy in Pre with one blow, doing 200 dmg or so,... ^^.

But, people, honestly, thanks!

*Mod close thread pl0x =D*

Antares Ascending · Nov 01, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

The quest shield with +armor vs char has no attribute req.

Ant

Oct 31, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28	#1
Maneo Ranae Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2007 Profession: W/D	Pre-Searing Question I've only recently made my fourth Prophecies character, hoping to achieve Legendary Defender of Ascalon on it. Now, my question is,... Since I don't have the attribute points to pump my attribute to 9 to pwn with my Sundering Rhino's Charge, what would be the Attribute to boost? Strength or Beast Mastery? (Yes, I have a pet, for extra damage) Now, if anyone could make, at least, an educated guess on how much the increase in damage would be with the extra points in Strength, or in Beast Mastery,... I'd be grateful =D. Just a little, complicated thing I wanted to know. Current attributes: Hammer Mastery: 3 (I've got the Weapon Crafter's hammer) Strength: 0 Beast Mastery: 0

Oct 31, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12	#3
The Meth Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Profession: R/	The strength benefit is really, really weak though. You are getting 1% AP per point ONLY on skill attacks, not normal attacks. At best you will probably average only 1 or 2 more damage per skill even with a high strength. So if you aren't using strength skills its much better to pump whatever weapon mastery you are using. If the choice has to come down between beastmastery and strength though, I would go beastmastery. Strength just has too small an effect by itself, while beast mastery gets you a good 10 DPS from the pet. I would just get a random drop weapon and use that in the meantime though, then switch to the hammer ASAP. EDIT: if going for LDoA, take the "Charr at the Gate" quest and level through that. You can get to level 7 or 8 pretty quickly and rurik does all the killing while you sit back and watch. Just don't finish the quest, abandon and retake it till you level enough. Last edited by The Meth; Oct 31, 2008 at 07:19 PM // 19:19..

Oct 31, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11	#11
Antares Ascending Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2008 Profession: E/	The armor in Pre is on the low side so str and armor penetration is going to give minimal dmg increase. Try going mostly str, then mostly weapon attribute to see. Pets, Once you start death leveling can be a MAJOR liability. You die just short of char death but pet kills the char = 0 exp. They also can be a spoiler on pulling Char This untimely death senario can also be true when using any degen skill like bleeding (sever artery) tho deep wound (gash, which needs bleeding) is your friend...big time. Both are sword skills. You may want to experiment with both hammer and sword to see which is more effective. I would choose sword/shield main set with a second set using hammer (extra attri. points in hammer for shamen or char using a heal signet). Better survivability with sword due to armor bonus with the shield. There is a good Char shield avail in a quest to return a chest to Devona with +armor vs Char. last....use a flat bow for pulling char. it has a huge arc which will give you more time after you aggro a group to be pulled. Long bows are ok but have a smaller arc and flight time. Check out Pre-Searing Community on the fansite page for some tips on the title http://www.presearing.com/ Personally, I would take a second profession but only take the initial skills. Ranger is good for Troll unguent which gives 13 seconds of regen that can be handy when pulling char. Good luck ! Ant ps: the exp you gain in pulling will serve you well throughout the game. Last edited by Antares Ascending; Oct 31, 2008 at 11:17 PM // 23:17..

Oct 31, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53	#2
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Strength by itself will increase your armor penetration, which will, in effect, increase your damage. But how much extra damage you do depends a lot on the armor level of your foes. http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Strength Beast Mastery will increase the damage done by your pet, but the wiki ( http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Mastery ) doesn't give a clear idea of by how much. It depends also, on the level of your pet. In my experience, unless you can put like 9 or 10 in BM you'd be better off putting points in Strength.

Oct 31, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34	#4
The Red Messenger Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: America	just do this: get the rinblade from ascalon crafter. its 10-14 req 3 sword mastery - 4-6 tactics - 3-5 wilderness survival - 2-3 frenzy, sever artery, gash, heal signet, troll unguent, comfort animal, res sig, charm animal easy day. oh and strength and beast mastery are a waste of points. for more damage, add points to your weapon attribute line.

Oct 31, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52	#6
Davy Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Profession: Mo/	Putting points over the requirement doesn't increase damage but critical hit chance. Id go for Weapon damage and dump leftovers in BM (even tho BM is bad in itself imho, dunno about presearing tho)

Oct 31, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32	#8
October Jade Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: drifting between Indiana and NorCal	Also...if you can put points in BM, that means you already took a secondary profession. When aiming for the LDoA title, that is not the wisest of decisions. It might behoove you to reroll your character; the time spent doing so is likely less than what it will take you to eke out the equivalent xp at level 19.

Oct 31, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15	#9
Maneo Ranae Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2007 Profession: W/D	I haven't yet chosen a secondary, I'm just orienting ^^. For later on, lol. The only quest I've done is for getting Frenzy and Healing Signet

Oct 31, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32	#10
crazybanshee Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Look out! Profession: E/	I just got ldoa on my warrior like a month ago. There's a really good guide in the community section here, but in a nutshell here's what I did. You have to do the first quest that makes you go into ascalon. Then you can accept as many quests as you want but don't take any rewards! Many of the quests will give you skills when they give you the quest. As a warrior, with a ranger secondary, you'll have attack skills (gash and 1 other one, I forget the name) plus troll unguent. Take the charr at the gate quest, do it, zone back to town, abandon the quest, retake it, etc etc. Until you get to level 10. Then you can do runs north of the wall - honestly I did the whole thing without a pet, because the pet really screws up your pulling and doesn't add very much damage, but ymmv. Once you start death leveling you definitely can't have a pet, it'll play havoc on that. Look for that guide in the community section here, I followed it and got ldoa without much trouble.

Nov 01, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48	#12
Bluefeather Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philippines Guild: [PNOY] Profession: W/R	I think you will like it better if you will put all your points to swordmanship so that you may increase the degen effect of your Sever Artery. Putting points on your secondary prof is not really helpful at that point of time (and usually, players who are working with LDoA don't have 2nd prof yet). Plus you need to find a anti Charr weapon to increase your damage output.

Nov 01, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00	#14
The Meth Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Profession: R/	He's going for LDoA, and there are no hard resses in pre, so monk really doesn't help.

Nov 01, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10	#15
Konig Des Todes Ooo, pretty flower Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Citadel of the Decayed Guild: The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore] Profession: N/	imo, just keep it balanced between Weapon Mastery and Strength, possibly Tactics as well (for better healing from Healing Signet).

Nov 01, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04	#18
crazybanshee Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Look out! Profession: E/	Ok. For warrior to get ldoa, put most of your points in swordsmanship. sorry, hammer is not the best wep to use for this. you get 2 good sword skills. Then put points in tactics, both for heal sig and the serrated shield. Take the quest that gives you the ranger skills so you can have troll unguent, but don't accept the reward until you're done death leveling. If you have leftover points you can put them in strength. Every time you level, you will get more attribute points so feel free to adjust and change them. I say troll unguent because that will give you good regen for several seconds, which will help you with pulling and also overcoming mesmer hexes and so on from the charr/ charr bosses. When you start death leveling, I recommend putting all your points into swordsmanship and strength, because you will basically not be healing and you'll need to kill faster just based on base damage alone without skills (because you will not want to inflict bleeding degen on the charr as they might die after you die and not give you any xp) Frenzy is also your friend in this as after you level the charr and are going to kill them, you can frenzy to help your base damage. Don't worry about healing, it's a waste of time. You'll be invulnerable for a few seconds every time you res, so use this time to attack one foe and over the course of a couple ressurects you'll eventually kill them. It sounds confusing but it's really not, once you've done it once the whole thing will make sense and you'll be an expert in no time. Anyone who's here giving advice about it should be able to flash their ldoa title on a warrior before they start arguing about what's best :/

Nov 01, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26	#19
Maneo Ranae Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2007 Profession: W/D	Well, I figured Hammer would be cool because then you'd pretty much kill every enemy in Pre with one blow, doing 200 dmg or so,... ^^. But, people, honestly, thanks! Mod close thread pl0x =D

Nov 01, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46	#20
Antares Ascending Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2008 Profession: E/	The quest shield with +armor vs char has no attribute req. Ant